From mouse@collatz.mcrcim.mcgill.edu Fri May 12 10:35:18 1995 Return-Path: Received: from Collatz.McRCIM.McGill.EDU by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for /com/archive/cube-lovers id AA06674; Fri, 12 May 95 10:35:18 EDT Received: (root@localhost) by 22790 on Collatz.McRCIM.McGill.EDU (8.6.10 Mouse 1.0) id KAA22790; Fri, 12 May 1995 10:35:04 -0400 Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 10:35:04 -0400 From: der Mouse Message-Id: <199505121435.KAA22790@Collatz.McRCIM.McGill.EDU> To: cube-lovers@life.ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: unsubscrib Cc: patrick@athos.med.auth.gr Since Patrick went public with his[%] complaint, I'll defend publicly, even though neither one is really on-topic for cube-lovers. I hope Alan won't get too upset, and I really hope this doesn't turn into a flamewar; cube-lovers has been notably free of them in the time I've been on it. [%] Gender assumed from the given name. > I have a complaint to make about the way mr. Allan Bawden (Whose name you consistently misspell, incidentally, thus being rather rude to him yourself. You also make many (other) spelling mistakes, but this one you make consistently.) > treats cube-lovers. > 1)Alot of people are not sure how to join a group when they start out > to join one. In fact in most cases the people are new to the > Internet , and in order to learn how to do things in the famous net , > they can join a news group . > (I am not sugesting that joining a news group teaches them about the > internet but its one of the things they can do) You seem to be under the impression that cube-lovers is a "news group". It's not; it's a mailing list. If you don't know the difference and can't find anything local to explain it, send me mail privately and I'll try to explain it. Yes, it's true, that's one of the things newbies can do. But that does not mean that it's a good thing to do, nor that it's reasonable to try to do it without first learning the correct way to do it. And when someone stumbles into a milieu without having first bothered to learn the rudiments of etiquiette as practiced therein, I don't feel it's unreasonable to meet that someone with a certain degree of rejection. > 2)Now if Mr Allan responds to their mistakes very rudly ,e.g I notice your address is in Greece, so I'll excuse this on grounds of ignorance. In English, one does not use titles (such as Mr.) with given names. It would be just "Alan" (not "Allan", since he's Alan Bawden, not Allan Bawden), or "Mr. Bawden". >> Date: Mon, 8 May 95 09:11:57 DST >> From: Frank=Lindgreen%DATLING%HHASPR@lng.hha.dk >> Subject: unsubscribe >> To: CUBE-LOVERS@life.ai.mit.edu >> Cc: >> >> unsubscribe >> >> For crying out loud, do -not- send administrative requests to the >> -entire- mailing list. You're the third idiot to make this mistake >> recently, so I guess I really do have to bother everybody myself >> with a reminder. > 3)"you're the third idiot--" etc I mean one gets quite upset about > the whole thing and one begins to question if it's worth it joining > the news group if they are so rude. I don't consider it excessive to be a little harsh to people who are being that rude. When Frank=Lindgreen%DATLING%HHASPR@lng.hha.dk was subscribed to the list to begin with, he[%] was sent a document explicitly describing how to unsubscribe. [%] Gender assumed from what looks like a given name in the address. If a _subscribe_ request goes to the whole list, it's still someone stumbling in in ignorance. But at least it can mostly be excused as ignorance. An _unsubscribe_ request can't; anyone with cause to send an unsubscribe request must already have subscribed, and thus been told the correct way to unsubscribe. > 4)I sugest Mr. Allan be firm but polite . It's best to keep the > correspondence bussness - like. In that way we still remain friends > ,and quite understand what is expected of us to do. I suggest you cut "Mr. Allan" some slack. I have participated in and mailing lists for many years now, and overall, Alan Bawden is one of the best list admins I've ever seen. Yes, it would be better if he[%] could remain firm and polite in the face of such provocation. But (apparently unlike you) I don't expect perfection from him. [%] Again, gender assumed from the given name. (English needs a good gender-neutral animate set of pronouns.) Perhaps that merely reflects on the poor crop of list admins available. I don't think so; I certainly doubt I would do much better. Perhaps you feel you could do better; I invite you to try. Start up a list of your own and see how it goes. >> THINK! THINK! THINK! If > 5) It sounds like Mr. Allan thinks that the qube member doesn't > think. I'm inclined to agree. If Frank=Lindgreen%DATLING%HHASPR@lng.hha.dk had thought enough to bother rereading the instructions sent when he subscribed to the list, or even had bothered to learn basic netiquette for Internet mailing lists in general, he would have known better than to send the unsubscribe request to the whole list. > For people interested in cubing thats an insult. We think of > ourselves as people who can think --on an overage better than most > people. "can think" != "do think". As is often amply demonstrated on the net. >> Send all administrative requests to: >> Cube-Lovers-Request@AI.MIT.EDU >> Everybody got that? This is important enough to bear re-quoting, I feel. der Mouse mouse@collatz.mcrcim.mcgill.edu